Legislative Committee of the Whole on (Gun) Crime & Violence

September 26th, 27th , & October 3rd, 2006

 

Day 1:

 

Here is a report on all the bills discussed and voted on during the "Committee of the Whole" on Tuesday, September 26th.  The bills with the  in front are bills that we are tracking.  Keep in mind, these were only "straw" votes and are not binding. 

You can view the bills at: http://www.legis.state.pa.us

 

Thanks to everyone who took the time out of their busy schedule and showed up at the Capitol yesterday to walk the halls, and knock on doors.  I'd estimate that we had at least 150 people there.

Thanks also to those who took the time to write or call their legislators.

 

There are some articles at the end of Day 3’s report.

 

 

House Committee of the Whole

HARRISBURG - (9/26/06, 11:10 a.m., House Floor)

Report provided by PLS for PFSC:

The House Committee of the Whole convened to discuss several proposals to curb crime and violence. The Committee of the Whole is a legislative tool utilized from time to time by the entire House to discuss issues. The members will vote on proposals, however the votes are not binding or officially recorded.

Before making the motion to resolve the House into the Committee of the Whole, Majority Leader Sam Smith (R-Jefferson) explained the point of the Committee is to share ideas designed to reduce gun violence, but not necessarily guns. He noted the answers to the problem lie in prevention, enforcement, sentencing and punishment.

Rep. Dwight Evans (D-Philadelphia) reiterated many of Rep. Smith's comments, emphasizing the need for a bipartisan effort to reduce gun violence.

Rep. John Perzel (R-Philadelphia) relayed a number of gruesome incidents involving gun violence occurring in Philadelphia, Harrisburg, the Poconos and other areas around Pennsylvania in recent months. He noted that while the city of Philadelphia in particular "is not doing a good job" of preventing violent crime, "from one end of the state to the other, the stories go on and on."

Rep. John Perzel's (R-Philadelphia) proposal for 10,000 additional police officers by 2010 provides grants to municipalities where the county must match 30% and local government entity match 20%. Priorities will be given to rural municipalities where fewer than ten police officers are employed, municipalities with the highest percentage of total reported crimes and municipalities with the largest populations. The proposal was approved, 176-22.

Rep. Mario Scavello (R-Monroe) noted that the creation of a regional police force in Monroe County was successful, but the force has been unable to keep up with the growth of the region. He then asked if the federal government was involved in the discussions to fund a portion of the costs. Rep. Perzel replied he has been in touch with the PA Congressional Delegation and federal money may be used toward the local match. Rep. Scavello indicated his support for the proposal, stating we need to be proactive and the visibility of police cars will deter crime.

Rep. John Taylor (R-Philadelphia) expressed his support, noting the increase in crime. He stated a visible presence will help reduce crime.

Rep. Mike Sturla (D-Lancaster) stated his support for the proposal, noting that 25% of the population gets police services for "free" because they do not have local police forces and are instead patrolled by the State Police. He commented there are parts of the proposal he feels could be improved, but overall it will be beneficial.

Rep. Dwight Evans commented the Governor announced a similar initiative in July and expressed his hope that a bipartisan agreement can be reached. He remarked that adding more police is part of a short term strategy, and efforts also need to be undertaken to fight crime by investing in children.

Rep. Ron Marsico (R-Dauphin) agreed with the concept of adding more police officers. He expressed concern with who would bear the start up costs in those municipalities without local police forces. Rep. Perzel explained there is additional funding to help those without local forces. He noted that up to 50% of the state allocation can be used for purchasing equipment. Rep. Marsico asked about the county's role. Rep. Perzel replied he intends to allow the county to make the decision as to where the resources should be targeted. Lastly, Rep. Marsico asked if the county commissioners would receive revenue for their role in implementation and administration. Rep. Perzel replied those details would need to be worked out.

Rep. Curtis Thomas (D-Philadelphia) asked about how funds could be used. Rep. Perzel reiterated up to 50% could be used for overtime or equipment purchases.

Rep. Steven Cappelli (R-Lycoming) commented on the increase in violence across the state. He argued law enforcement capabilities need to be augmented and expressed support for the proposal, stating it provides a "unique opportunity."

Rep. Mike Gerber (D-Montgomery) asked Rep. Perzel if he spoke with any municipalities regarding their interest in the proposal or ability to participate. Rep. Perzel replied he talked with a number of municipalities. Some expressed concern with the cost, he noted, adding that he will continue to push for federal funding. He suggested the committee process can be used to flesh out the finer details of the cost. Rep. Gerber asked where the money will come from. Rep. Perzel replied funding for the first year will come from the legislative accounts and from budget surpluses in subsequent years. Rep. Gerber noted there are no guarantees of surpluses. He commented on the need to protect and enhance the resources of existing police officers, remarking criminals shouldn't be better armed than police.

Rep. John Myers (D-Philadelphia) stated his support for the proposal, noting that his son was kidnapped a month ago and he hasn't been heard from since. He argued that if there were more police officers this may not have happened.

Rep. John Pallone (D-Westmoreland) stated his support for the proposal, remarking it makes PA safer.

Rep. Harold James (D-Philadelphia) indicated his support for adding more police officers.

Rep. Mark Cohen (D-Philadelphia) stated his support for the proposal, remarking on the positive effect of an increased police presence. He then discussed the universal hiring program, which was federally funded 75% under the Clinton Administration, but has declined significantly under the Bush Administration. He suggested the General Assembly meet with the PA Congressional delegation to discuss federal funding.

Rep. Craig Dally (R-Northampton) commented that the PA Sheriffs Association has requested legislation that clarifies the role of sheriffs in PA. Rep. Dally argued this is an opportunity to get 2,500 trained law enforcement officers on the streets.

Rep. John Maher (R-Allegheny) stated his opposition to the proposal, arguing that it won't help all communities and local decisions should be left to the local governments to make.

Rep. Peter Daley (D-Washington) stated his support for the proposal, remarking that crime is increasing and municipalities are losing police departments because they cannot afford them.

Rep. Chris Sainato (D-Lawrence) discussed the increase in drug use in society and the effect that is having on urban violence. He argued this legislation is a preventative measure that will save money in the long run.

Rep. Mario Civera (R-Delaware) indicated his support for the proposal.

Rep. John Yudichak (D-Luzerne) stated his support for the proposal. He then asked if the money in the proposal could be used for regional police departments. Rep. Perzel stated his support for regional planning and noted that municipalities would only need to provide 20% funding under his plan.

Rep. George Kenney (R-Philadelphia) indicated his support, remarking the increased police presence will prevent crime.

Rep. Jewell Williams (D-Philadelphia) stated his support for the proposal.

Rep. Thomas Blackwell (D-Philadelphia) also stated his support for the proposal.

Rep. Perzel wrapped up the discussion by reiterating that his proposal will put an additional 10,000 police officers in PA by 2010, which will be funded from the legislative accounts for the first year.

HB 2877 Gannon - (PN 4495) Amends Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) by providing for the mandatory reporting of the sale or transfer of multiple (two or more) firearms. Each licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer of firearms would have to prepare a report of multiple sales of firearms to any one person during any five consecutive business days. Also, the PA State Police would have to maintain a registry of lost or stolen firearms. Failure to report a lost or stolen firearm to the State Police would be a summary offense. - The proposal failed, 65-111.

Rep. Dan Surra (D-Elk) spoke in opposition to the proposal, stating it won't stop the sale of illegal guns.

Rep. James asked if an individual would have to register if he bought two guns. Rep. Tom Gannon (R-Delaware) replied he would. Rep. James stated his support for registering handguns and for requiring lost or stolen guns to be reported to police.

Rep. Kerry Benninghoff (R-Centre) stated his opposition to the proposal and asked if it applies when firearms aren't sold by a licensed dealer, such as at a public auction. Rep. Gannon replied it only applies to licensed dealers and does not place any additional burden on the purchaser. Rep. Benninghoff cautioned against infringing on the rights of law-abiding gun owners.

Rep. Gannon explained the law currently requires the registration of all firearms, and emphasized his proposal does not create a gun registry. Rather, he explained, it enters only guns reported lost or stolen into a database. Rep. Metcalfe noted the legislation is opposed by a coalition of Sportsmen's Associations.

Rep. Russ Fairchild (R-Union) pointed out there are over a million hunters in PA, as well as a large number of gun collectors, most of whom own more than one weapon. He remarked the majority probably don't count their guns every day, and commented he couldn't tell if one of his guns was lost or stolen last week, last month or last year. He presumed the burden of proof will probably be left up to courts, and asked if the state will see case laws that are misinterpreted. Rep. Gannon replied he was very careful to include the word "discovery" in the language, meaning that a gun owner who loses or has a weapon stolen does not have to report it within 48 hours of its disappearance, but rather the discovery of its disappearance. He added most people are law abiding and wouldn't want their weapons used in crimes.

Rep. Marc Gergely (D-Allegheny) offered his support for zero tolerance treatment of illegal gun purchases, but commented he doesn't believe Rep. Gannon's proposal will succeed. Rep. Gannon explained his proposal only makes it necessary for a gun purchase to be reported to authorities in the buyer's hometown, not just the town in which the purchase was made.

Rep. Cappelli asked if multi-gun purchases are currently reported to the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Rep. Gannon confirmed this is true, but explained his proposal would allow local authorities to be made aware of stolen gun purchases. Rep. Thomas agreed, asserting local authorities should have knowledge of out-of-town gun acquisitions.

 HB 2906 Keller, W. - (PN 4571) Amends the Pennsylvania Board of Probation and Parole Law further providing for supervision by county probation and parole officers by adding that (1) it is not the intent of the General Assembly to authorize officers or law enforcement officers to conduct personal or property searches for the sole purpose of harassment; (2) an inmate who is eligible for release on parole from an offense under 18 Pa.C.S. Pt. II Art. B (relating to offenses involving danger to the person) or Ch. 61 (relating to firearms and other dangerous articles) must agree in writing to be subject to search or seizure by an officer or law enforcement officer at any time, with or without a search warrant and with or without cause; and (3) an officer or law enforcement officer may conduct a personal or property search of an inmate released on parole from an offense under 18 Pa.C.S. Pt. II Art. B or Ch. 61 without a warrant and without cause. (Prior Printer Number: 4557, 4566) - The proposal was adopted, 147-42.

Rep. Cappelli offered his support for Rep. Keller's proposal, while Rep. Cohen remarked the proposal goes to the heart of the dilemma, dealing with recidivism of criminals.

Rep. James expressed hope that the proposal could make its way through the committee process without stripping away too many constitutional rights from citizens.

Rep. Blackwell stated his opposition to the bill stems from his belief in the equality of all, including those who have previously committed crimes.

Rep. Thomas wondered why warrantless searches should be necessary when ex-convicts are already considered under the total control of their probation.

Rep. Bob Belfanti (D-Northumberland) asked Rep. Keller his definition of "violent crimes." Rep. Keller said homicides, assaults, kidnappings, sexual assaults and any firearm felonies are considered "violent" crimes.

HB 2946 Metcalfe - (PN 4628) Amends Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) adding provisions for temporary emergency licenses to carry a concealed firearm. The bill extensively outlines the duties of the sheriff before the temporary license may be issued. - The proposal was adopted, 144-40.

HB 2046 Godshall - (PN 2823) Amends Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) further providing for the offense of sale or transfer of firearms by adding that anyone who knowingly or intentionally sells, delivers or transfers a firearm under circumstances intended to provide a firearm to any person who is unqualified or ineligible to control, possess or use a firearm would have a mandatory minimum sentence of imprisonment of five years. A second or subsequent violation would result in the permanent revocation of any license to sell, import or manufacture a firearm. - The proposal was adopted, 163-17.

HB 2047 Godshall - (PN 2824) Amends Title 42 (Judiciary) further providing for sentences for offenses committed with firearms by adding that if, during the commission of an offense, a person used a firearm in the that was stolen or discharged a firearm during the commission of the offense, he/she would be sentenced to a minimum sentence of at least seven years of total confinement. - The proposal was adopted, 162-19.

Rep. Mike Sturla (D-Lancaster) asked if the proposal brings penalties in line with Federal law. Rep. Robert Godshall (R-Montgomery) replied the proposal enhances state penalties, but does not bring them level with Federal law.

Rep. Matt Baker (R-Tioga) offered his support for the initiative, while Rep. Greg Vitali (D-Delaware) inquired about the mandatory minimum sentencing aspect of the bill. Rep. Godshall explained the results of a study on the efficacy of mandatory minimum sentencing was never returned to him, and should be taken up with the Sentencing Commission.

 HB 1503 Payne - (PN 3733) Amends Title 75 (Vehicles) further providing for the offense of fleeing or attempting to elude police officer. The bill states that any driver of a motor vehicle who willfully fails or refuses to bring his vehicle to a stop, or who otherwise flees or attempts to elude a pursuing police officer, while engaged in a violation of section 3802 (relating to driving under influence of alcohol or controlled substance), when given a visual and audible signal to bring the vehicle to a stop, commits a misdemeanor of the first degree. A driver who violates this section would be sentenced to pay an additional fine of at least $1,000 and to imprisonment for at least 72 consecutive hours. This fine would be in addition to and not in lieu of all other fines, court expenses, jail sentences or penalties. (Prior Printer Number: 1837) - The proposal was adopted, 163-9.

 HB 331 Stevenson, T - (PN 352) Amends the Pennsylvania Innkeepers' Rights Act giving employers the right to obtain a criminal history report of the preceding seven years to the date of the request for a prospective employee who will have access to guest room keys. The employer may use the information contained in the criminal history report in making his/her hiring decision. - The proposal was passed over.

HB 41 Thomas - (PN 43) Amends Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) by adding that the offense of carrying firearms without a license would be a felony of the first degree. (Currently is it a felony of the third degree). If the offender of carrying a firearm without a license uses the firearm to cause death or serious bodily injury, the offender would be ordered to pay restitution to the victim or estate of the victim equal to the medical and other expenses incurred by the victim as a result of the use of the firearm. Any person who is ordered to pay restitution and is sentenced to a term of imprisonment may not be released or paroled unless the person has taken affirmative action to pay such restitution. The legislation also adds a $5 increase to the fee for a license to carry a firearm, bringing the total cost to $24. The $5 fee would be deposited into the Firearm Safety Education Fund, which is established by the legislation as a separate fund in the State Treasury. The moneys of the fund would be distributed by the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency to entities that provide firearm safety education to minors in this Commonwealth. Lastly, the legislation states that any person, licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer or licensed importer who knowingly or intentionally sells, delivers or transfers a firearm in violation of this section to a person who uses the firearm to cause death or serious bodily injury to another person, and who knew that the firearm would be so used would, in addition to any other penalty provided by law, be ordered to pay restitution as well. - The proposal was adopted, 105-82.

Rep. Metcalfe noted his opposition to the proposal in light of its $5 required license fee increase. Rep. Dwight Evans countered, characterizing the proposal as a good concept, and asked for the support of members. Rep. Thomas agreed with Rep. Metcalfe, promising his first step in the committee process would be to make the "punks responsible" bear the extra licensing costs rather than law-abiding citizens.

HB 2913 Taylor, J - (PN 4597) Amends Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) by adding that the State Police, in order to investigate and initiate proceedings for any firearm offense, would be authorized to compile, analyze and use information from all of the following sources: (1) An application/record of sale or information retained from an application/record of sale sent to the Pennsylvania State Police pursuant to section 6111(b)(1); (2) An application/record of sale or information retained from an application/record of sale sent to the Pennsylvania State Police pursuant to section 6111(b)(1.1)(i); however, nothing in this paragraph would authorize the retention of information in violation of section 6111(b)(1.1)(v); and (3) A report of multiple sales or dispositions received pursuant to 18 U.S.C. Sec. 923(g)(3) (relating to licensing); however, nothing in this paragraph would authorize the retention of information in violation of 18 U.S.C. Sec. 923(g)(3)(B). - The proposal failed, 82-106.

Rep. Taylor then explained that his proposal does not require new data, noting that it is already collected by the State Police.

 HB 2923 True - (PN 4603) Amends Title 23 (Domestic Relations) further providing for education and training by adding that the established program of training and certification for persons classified as protective services workers must include basic training on drug and alcohol abuse and addiction, early warning signs of drug and alcohol abuse, methods of referral for drug and alcohol abuse and resources for drug and alcohol addiction. - The proposal was adopted, 164-17.

Rep. Katie True (R-Lancaster) stated that the problem of violence is shared in communities throughout Pennsylvania. She then explained that her proposal would require 20 hours of continuing education in drug and alcohol training for children and youth workers. "We need to attack the drug issue before we address the gun issue," she remarked.

HB 2364 Mann - (PN 3373) Amends Titles 18 (Crimes and Offenses) and 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure) by deleting current grading for failure to comply with registration of sexual offenders requirements and adding that an individual subject to registration under 42 Pa.C.S. Sec. 9795.1(a) or (b)(1), (2) or (3) who commits a violation or a similar offense commits a felony of the third degree. The bill also adds that the street address of registered offenders would be made available on the Internet. - The proposal was adopted, 170-20.

Rep. Jennifer Mann (D-Lehigh) explained that this proposal would require sex offenders to provide their street address to be put on the state's Megan's Law website.

 HB 1900 Mann - (PN 2601) Amends Title 42 (Judiciary) removing the statute of limitations for the offense of sexual assault as set forth in 18 Pa.C.S. 3124.1 (relating to sexual assault). Currently prosecution for such an offense must be commenced within 12 years after it is committed. - The proposal was adopted, 165-22.

 HB 2365 Mann - (PN 3374) Amends Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) by deleting current grading for failure to comply with registration of sexual offenders requirements and adding that an individual subject to registration under 42 Pa.C.S. Sec. 9795.1(a) or (b)(1), (2) or (3) who commits a violation or a similar offense commits a felony of the third degree. - The proposal was adopted, 165-17.

Rep. Jennifer Mann's (D-Lehigh) proposal to remove the statute of limitations on sex crimes involving minors was adopted, 167-23.

Rep. Mann's explained the proposal would remove the statute of limitations on statutory rape or sex assault cases involving minors.

 HB 661 Casorio - (PN 754) Amends Title 42 (Judiciary) further providing for offenses against elderly persons by adding that the victim may be a police officer who is over 60 years of age. - The proposal was adopted, 165-19.

Rep. James Casorio (D-Westmoreland) explained that this proposal adds police officers over the age of 60 to the minimum mandatory sentences for crimes against the elderly. He explained that the FOP supports this proposal.

 HB 2657 Casorio - (PN 4027) Amends the Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act further providing for schedules of controlled substances by adding Divinorin A, Salvia Divinorum and Salvinorin A to Schedule I. - The proposal was adopted, 168-14.

Rep. Casorio stated this proposal makes the drug Salvia Divinorum a Schedule I controlled substance.

HB 2406 Casorio - (PN 3440) The Pennsylvania Senior Alert System Act requires the PA State Police to establish and maintain the Pennsylvania Senior Alert System to assist in the recovery of missing endangered adults through prompt notification to the general public and appropriate law enforcement authorities. The legislation outlines the procedures for reporting missing adults, for broadcasting alerts and for investigating their disappearance. - The proposal was adopted, 171-15.

Rep. Casorio offered that the proposal would create a Senior Alert System, which would allow law enforcement officers to look for missing seniors in a quicker manner when they disappear.

 HB 1290 Casorio - (PN 1534) Amends Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) by adding that a person commits a misdemeanor of the second degree if he/she intentionally obstructs, impairs or perverts the administration of law or other governmental function by force, violence, physical interference or obstacle, breach of official duty or intimidates an individual to refrain from informing, reporting to or cooperating with a State agency or a political subdivision. - The proposal was adopted, 167-13.

Rep. Casorio explained that the proposal expands the definition of obstruction of the administration of the law so someone cannot intimidate another person into not informing or helping law enforcement.

 HB 1773 DiGirolamo - (PN 2268) Amends The Administrative Code establishing the Department of Drug and Alcohol Programs, which would include a Bureau of Prevention and Intervention, Bureau of Treatment and Bureau of Administration. The Department would develop and adopt a State plan for the control, prevention, intervention, treatment, rehabilitation, research, education, and training aspects of drug and alcohol abuse and dependence problems. The Pennsylvania Advisory Council on Drug and Alcohol Abuse would be the advisory council to the Department of Drug and Alcohol Programs. The Pennsylvania Drug and Alcohol Abuse Control Act would be repealed. - The proposal was adopted, 158-24.

Rep. Gene DiGirolamo (R-Bucks) described the proposal, noting that it would create a Department of Drug and Alcohol Programs. He offered that violent crime is driven by drug and alcohol addiction and the problem of addiction must be addressed.

Rep. D. Evans commented that this proposal addresses addiction, which is a serious problem. He urged all the members to support the proposal.

Rep. Mark Cohen (D-Philadelphia) also expressed support for the proposal. He suggested that the potential cost savings of addressing addiction are tremendous.

Rep. James offered his support as well.

HB 1518 Bishop - (PN 1852) Amends the Public School Code by creating a program for all K-12 students to receive instruction on preventing violence in society and in schools. The Department of Education would be charged with creating curriculum guidelines for this program. The bill states that IUs are to loan educational materials developed by the Department of Education for this program to nonpublic students in their area. Local school boards would not be required to expend Federal or State funds for the use or loan of materials to nonpublic schools. - The proposal was adopted, 151-33.

Rep. Louise Williams Bishop (D-Philadelphia) explained that her proposal would create a Public School Violence Protection Program. She remarked that funding for prevention programs is critical.

Rep. D. Evans applauded the proposal, commenting that we need to make an early investment in our children.

 HB 2779 McIlhattan - (PN 4254) Amends Titles 18 (Crimes and Offenses) and 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure) further providing for sentencing for the offense of rape of a child. Sentencing provisions for "Rape of a child" (Section C) and "Rape of a child with serious bodily injury" (Section D) are deleted and replaced with language stating that a first offence of violation of Section C would carry a sentence of up to 40 years imprisonment, a violation of Section D would carry a sentence of up to life imprisonment and a second or subsequent offence of Sections C or D would carry a sentence of death or life imprisonment without parole. Sentencing procedures are further specified including a list of aggravating and mitigating circumstances that can be presented. Instructions for the jury are defined including instructions stating the verdict must be a sentence of death if the jury unanimously finds at least one aggravating circumstance. - The proposal was adopted, 153-29.

Rep. Fred McIlhattan (R-Clarion) explained that the proposal would allow the death penalty for repeat child rapists of children under the age of 13.

HB 2231 Cappelli - (PN 3110) Amends Titles 18 (Crimes and Offenses) and 42 (Judiciary) by further providing for self-protection by adding that an individual is presumed to have a reasonable belief that deadly force is immediately necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat if both of the following exist: (1) the person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering a dwelling, residence or occupied vehicle, or if that person unlawfully and forcefully removed another against that other's will from the dwelling, residence or occupied vehicle; and (2) the individual had reason to believe that an unlawful and forceful entry or act was occurring or had occurred. A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter an individual's dwelling, residence or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an act resulting in death or serious bodily injury or kidnapping or sexual intercourse by force or threat. The legislation provides for civil immunity for use of force. - The proposal was adopted, 151-42.

Rep. Cappelli said the bill allows a person to use lethal force in self defense. He commented that this is necessary for people to protect themselves and their families.

Rep. Kathy Manderino (D-Philadelphia) opposed the proposal because she believes it is unnecessary and dangerous. She said it will bring a "shoot first" mentality to the streets.

Rep. James also spoke in opposition to the bill.

Rep. Jewell Williams (D-Philadelphia) remarked that people should retreat instead of getting into a firefight. He expressed his belief that this bill will put more people at risk.

Rep. Pallone suggested that this proposal empowers people who want to protect their families.

Rep. Jeff Pyle (R-Armstrong) spoke in support of the proposal because he believes people should be able to protect themselves and their homes.

Rep. Casorio also expressed support for the proposal.

Rep. Cohen urged members to keep in mind the words of District Attorney Lynne Abraham, who, while known to be tough on crime, believes that this legislation will make it harder to prosecute criminals.

Rep. Babette Josephs (D-Philadelphia) worried this proposal would only extend the current Castle Doctrine to the streets.

Rep. Daryl Metcalfe (R-Butler) countered that citizens should have the right to stand up and defend themselves, especially in today's climate of terrorism. When Rep. Metcalfe asked Rep. Cappelli if his bill would alter the current law with regards to committing criminal activity with a firearm or carrying a firearm illegally, the Representative stressed his bill does not change the current law with respect to those issues.

While Rep. Richard Geist (R-Blair) commended Rep. Cappelli on introducing a good piece of legislation, Rep. D. Evans expressed concern over the bill, rhetorically asking if people really believe that arming everyone will solve the problem of violence.

Rep. Jake Wheatley (D-Allegheny) stated his belief that this bill is a step in the wrong direction to decrease violence. Rep. Gergely, however, disagreed, insisting that the Castle Doctrine is necessary for the protection of the citizens of PA. Relating a story of how he once had to defend himself from would be attackers, Rep. Shawn Flaherty (D-Allegheny) agreed, saying that he supports the right of people to be able to defend themselves.

Rep. John Sabatina (D-Philadelphia) was not swayed by these arguments stating that the legislation may sound good, but he wondered how prosecutors would be able to prosecute gang members who engage in shootouts if the bill passed.

Rep. Cappelli closed debate on the bill stating that more than a few speakers had misconstrued the meaning of the current law as well as the meaning of the bill. He argued that there is no right to relief for carrying an illegal handgun or if a person used a gun in the commission of a crime. He stressed his bill would only apply to those that are legally entitled to carry a concealed weapon.

HB 2927 Siptroth - (PN 4607) Amends the Administrative Code deleting provisions capping the complement of the PA State Police at 3,940. Additionally, the Act entitled "An act repealing in part a limitation on the complement of the Pennsylvania State Police," is repealed. - The proposal was adopted, 179-7.

Rep. John Siptroth (D-Monroe) addressed the Committee, stating that his district in the Pocono's has witnessed both a rising population and rising crime rate. Lamenting that there are not enough police, he offered a proposal to remove the caps on the number of State Police.

Rep. Sam Smith (R-Jefferson) spoke in support of this proposal stating that while efforts have been made for years to increase the numbers of State Police, the Administration continues to drag its feet on the issue.

 HB 2928 Siptroth - (PN 4608) Amends Title 22 (Detective and Private Police) adding a chapter on special police officers for planned communities. The legislation authorizes the developer of a planned community or association of a planned community to apply for selected individuals to be designated as special police officers for the planned community. The legislation provides for court review, contents of the application to the court, and training requirements. The Commissioner of the State Police would have the authority to admit such officers to the Municipal Police Officers' Education and Training Program and to issue appropriate certificates to provisional special police officers who have satisfactorily completed the basic educational and training requirements. The legislation outlines the powers and duties of the officers, stating that certified special police officers would possess and exercise all the powers of a municipal police officer in PA in and upon the property of the planned community. - The proposal failed, 88-100.

Rep. Siptroth said the proposal will give security officers in gated communities the same police powers as municipal police upon completion of Act 120 training, which is necessary because right now they can only detain individuals.

Rep. James Casorio (D-Westmoreland) expressed his reservation for the proposal saying that it could run into constitutional problems in court. He stressed if residents in gated communities want full police protection then they should choose to live in a location where this is possible. He asked for a negative vote.

Rep. Chris Ross (R-Chester) likewise urged a negative vote saying there is too much potential for conflict between the private security force of a gated community and the municipal and state police.

Rep. Anthony DeLuca (D-Allegheny) offered his support, however, arguing that the State Police are stretched too thin as it is and that they should be taking care of more serious issues on the street rather than continually rushing off to gated communities for minor issues that a private security force could take care of.

Rep. James opined this proposal needs to be worked on more in committee.

 HB 704 Pistella - (PN 796) Amends Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) defining the offense of criminal gang activity; and imposing penalties. The bill defines a criminal gang as a group of at least five individuals that either promotes, sponsors, assists or participates in, or requires as a condition of membership participation in, a felony. Anyone who participates in gang activity is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree for the first offense and a felony of the third degree for every second and subsequent offense. - The proposal was adopted, 168-10.

Rep. Frank Pistella (D-Allegheny) offered HB 704 in an effort to create a crime for criminal gang activity.

Rep. Mike Sturla (D-Lancaster) stated PA is one of eleven states that does not have legislation for gang related crimes. He said that he hopes this and his legislation to be offered later would be adopted. He encouraged a yes vote on the bill.

 HB 705 Pistella - (PN 797) Amends Title 42 (Judiciary) further defining "delinquent act" by including assailants age 12 and older. Currently only those age 15 and older are included. The legislation also further defines the exclusion to include simple assault, aggravated assault and use of a deadly weapon. It also adds to the exclusions offenses committed under The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act and criminal gang activity. The bill removes an exemption for acts committed by individuals 15 years or older that had previously been found delinquent. - The proposal was adopted, 163-15 .

Rep. Pistella said HB 705 is a companion bill to HB 704. The Rep. explained that HB 705 would amend the Judicial Code to lower from 15 years of age to 12 years of age the point at which an individual can be tried as an adult. The bill would also extend the list of crimes that district attorneys could charge an individual as an adult under. He asked for the Committee's support on this bill.

HB 2908 Thomas - (PN 2559) The Illegal Firearms Trafficking Act establishes the Bureau of Illegal Firearms Trafficking in the Office of the Attorney General. Duties of the bureau would include investigating potential violations of 18 Pa.C.S. (relating to crimes and offenses) relating to illegal firearms trafficking; and bringing prosecutions relating to illegal firearms trafficking. The Attorney General would receive complaints from individuals concerning illegal firearms trafficking and investigate and assist in county prosecutions relating to illegal firearms trafficking and, as necessary, coordinate with Federal, State and local law enforcement agencies in the investigation of similar crimes. Additionally, the Attorney General would annually report to the General Assembly detailing the activities engaged in by the bureau. - The proposal was withdrawn.

Rep. Thomas rose to discuss the bill saying that he considers this an important issue but will withdraw his bill and ask for the Committee to support Rep. Dennis O'Brien's (R-Philadelphia) bill that would do the same thing.

HB 2909 Thomas - (PN 2560) Amends Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) providing for PA State Police reporting of multiple firearms purchases to certain local law enforcement authorities by adding that the State Police must make all reasonable efforts to detect multiple firearms purchases by the same individual occurring within a 30-day period of each other. Instances of such multiple firearms purchases would be promptly reported to local law enforcement agencies in the county where the multiple purchases occurred and, if the purchaser is a Pennsylvania resident, in the county where the purchaser resides. - The proposal failed, 86-103.

Rep. Thomas next sought support for House Bill 2909 saying it is needed to address the underlying causes of violence. He stated that 70% of those prosecuted for gun crimes are functionally illiterate, underemployed and have behavioral challenges. Rep. Thomas closed by stressing that HB 2909 is a step in the right direction and asked for the Committee's support.

Rep. Metcalfe asked if the bill contains a provision for the destruction of records after 30 days of a multi-gun purchase. Rep. Thomas acknowledged that this provision is not located within the bill but that he would be happy to work to make the necessary changes in committee to ensure that they were both happy with the bill's contents.

Rep. Yudichak's proposal for a Regional Police Assistance Grant Program was adopted, 170-10.

Rep. Yudichak offered his proposal saying it would increase the number of regional police and seeks sustainable money for the hiring and retention of regional police.

 HB 2735 Parker - (PN 4276) Amends Title 42 (Judiciary) providing for unlawful disclosure of grand jury matters by stating that a person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if the person knowingly discloses matters occurring before a grand jury, including testimony, with the intent to commit certain offenses. (Prior Printer Number: 4157) - The proposal was adopted, 180-5.

Rep. Cherelle Parker (D-Philadelphia) rose to seek support for House Bill 2735, stressing that if we are going to ask for citizens to testify at trials, we must give them assurances that they will be safe from retribution from those they are testifying against.

 HB 2736 Parker - (PN 4158) Amends Title 44 (Law and Justice) establishing the Witness Relocation Program. The bill provides for admission and eligibility into the program, and gives the Attorney General the authority to admit a witness into the program. The Attorney General's Office would coordinate the efforts of Commonwealth and local agencies to secure relocation services for witnesses in the program and would have the power terminate participation in the program for a witness. Lastly, information relating to any witness participating in the program would remain confidential and is not subject to disclosure. - The proposal was adopted, 177-5.

Rep. Parker next sought support for a proposal to create a witness protection and relocation program in the state, stating it would be under the jurisdiction of the Attorney General's office and has received bipartisan support.

Rep. Thomas Petrone (D-Allegheny) offered that we are undergoing a crisis and these are the times that try men's souls.

 HB 2912 Baker - (PN 4575) Amends Title 44 (Law and Justice) establishing a drug offender registry. The registry would consist of the person's name, date of birth, the offense or offenses, the conviction date and the county where the conviction occurred. The PA State Police would make registry information available for public inquiry on the Internet. The bill also states that the Pennsylvania State Police would remove the name and other identifying information of a person from the registry who is convicted of an offense seven years after the date of the most recent conviction. - The proposal was adopted, 172-7.

Rep. Baker asked for the Chamber's support, stating that being from a district that is considered one of the methamphetamine capitals of the U.S., a registry would give the State Police another tool to fight these crimes.

 HB 2390 Grell - (PN 3414) Amends Titles 18 (Crimes and Offenses) and 23 (Domestic Relations) further providing for the disclosure of certain criminal history record information and certain information related to abuse to the Domestic Violence Fatality Review Board and to any domestic violence fatality review team; establishing the Domestic Violence Fatality Review Program, the Domestic Violence Fatality Review Board and domestic violence fatality review teams and providing for their powers and duties and fixing penalties for certain violations related to the Domestic Violence Fatality Review Program. - The proposal was adopted, 171-6.

Rep. Glen Grell (R-Cumberland) sought support for the bill saying that it would create the statutory framework for the sharing of information among various groups on the topic of domestic violence.

Rep. Josh Shapiro (D-Montgomery) expressed support for the bill stating that this will allow groups to share information thereby allowing for the prevention of the tragedies associated with domestic violence.

HB 2911 Reed - - by Rep. Dave Reed (R-Indiana) closes the loophole for sexual offenders being released until the State Police receives registry information on the offender. The bill adds a requirement to not release the offender until the registry information is posted on the Megan's Law website. The bill has been filed, but text is not yet available. The proposal was approved, 178-7.

 HB 2751 Reichley - (PN 4202) Amends Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) further providing for grading of theft offenses by adding that receiving stolen property would be a felony of the first degree when it involves a firearm and the receiver is in the business of buying or selling stolen property. - The proposal was approved, 181-4.

 HB 2922 Harhart - (PN 4602) Amends Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) creating an offense for wearing a disguise to avoid apprehension. - The proposal was approved, 172-17.

Rep. Julie Harhart (R-Northampton) explained a law enforcement official in her district who had strong concerns prompted her to sponsor this legislation. She noted states such as California, New York, Florida and also Washington, D.C. have already enacted similar legislation.

Following consideration of Rep. Harhart's proposal, the House recessed the Committee of the Whole until tomorrow.

PLS Reporting Staff: Rebecca Kann, Mike Howells, Kimberly Hess, Nate Collins, & Eric Failing

- 30 -

 

Day 2

 

House Committee of the Whole

HARRISBURG - (9/27/06, 10:40 a.m., House Floor)

Report prepared by PLS for PFSC

The House Committee of the Whole reconvened to discuss several proposals to curb crime and violence. The Committee of the Whole is a legislative tool utilized from time to time by the entire House to discuss issues. The members will vote on proposals; however the votes are not binding or officially recorded.

 HB 2417 Waters - (PN 3474) Amends Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) by adding that a defendant in an active protection from abuse order may not purchase, acquire or possess a firearm while the order is in effect. All firearms in the possession of the defendant, including firearms used by the defendant in the defendant's employment, would be delivered to the sheriff's department of the county in which the order was issued. Additionally, such person may not be issued a firearm license while the order is in effect. - The proposal failed, 71-125.

Rep. Russ Fairchild (R-Union) expressed concern that the proposal would affect recent agreements reached on protection from abuse legislation. Rep. Ron Waters (D-Philadelphia) replied he is not trying to affect those agreements, but enhance them for the better. He argued the proposal would protect victims from being further victimized.

Rep. Daryl Metcalfe (R-Butler) stated the bill would "undo a lot of what we did" and noted the Sportsmen's Coalition opposes it.

Rep. Dwight Evans (D-Philadelphia) stated the proposal makes sense, has foresight and is reasonable. He stated the Committee should consider the concept, as this is a non-binding forum.

 HB 2113 Waters - (PN 2908) The Child Firearm Safety Lock Act would provide for child firearm safety lock mechanisms. The legislation is designed to promote safe use of firearms by authorized users, and prevent use by unauthorized users and children without hindering the firearm industry. The bill would make it illegal to sell or transfer any weapon without providing a locking device for it. Exceptions to this rule include firearms possessed by law enforcement officers, firearms that qualify as antiques, or firearms for which a safety device is temporarily unavailable. The bill stipulates penalties for violations including the suspension of license and a civil penalty of up to $10,000. The bill provides that any person who properly uses a safety device with a firearm will have immunity from civil liability that may result from the unauthorized criminal use of the firearm by a third party. - The proposal failed, 76-115.

Rep. D. Evans stated this is a good concept to promote the discussion of safety and security.

Rep. Metcalfe argued the proposal is just more governmental control and noted the Sportsmen's Coalition opposes it.

Rep. Jewell Williams (D-Philadelphia) stated the proposal saves children's lives, remarking people no longer use common sense to resolve disagreements.

Rep. Ron Waters (D-Philadelphia) added that a safety lock gives a person more time to think about his actions.

HB 2281 Waters - (PN 3193) Amends Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) providing for the required recording of interrogations by stating that any custodial and noncustodial interrogations by a law enforcement officer of any person suspected of committing a felony would be audiotaped with or without the consent of the person who is being interrogated. - The proposal failed, 86-106.

Rep. Waters remarked that recording interrogations protects both the police officer and the individual. He noted the Fraternal Order of Police supports the proposal.

HB 1131 Waters - (PN 1337) Amends Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure) providing for a drug treatment program. A person convicted of violating The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act, and who tests positive for drug use may participate in a drug treatment program. Upon successful completion of the drug treatment program, any records of arrest or prosecution would be promptly expunged. No person would be permitted to learn of an expunged arrest or prosecution directly or indirectly. - The proposal failed, 78-113.

Rep. Waters urged members to support a proposal that allows offenders to get the help they need instead of damaging their record.

HB 2312 Sather - (PN 4386) Amends The Borough Code providing for specific powers of boroughs relating to emergency services by adding that the borough would be responsible for ensuring that fire and emergency medical services are provided within the borough, and would determine and provide the appropriate financial and administrative assistance necessary for these services in order to protect the health, safety and welfare of its citizenry. Also the borough would require any emergency services organization receiving borough funds to provide to the borough an annual itemized listing of all expenditures of these funds before the borough may consider budgeting additional funding to the organization. (Prior Printer Number: 3273) - The proposal was approved, 164-25.

Rep. Tom Tigue (D-Luzerne) stated his support for the proposal and next two, noting it is important to create a system that allows municipalities to ensure the health and safety of its residents.

Rep. Pat Fleagle (R-Franklin) stated PA is at a crisis point with emergency services, as the number of volunteers is dropping. He remarked the proposal brings this problem to the forefront.

HB 2313 Sather - (PN 4387) Amends The First Class Township Code providing for specific powers relating to emergency services by adding that the township would be responsible for ensuring that fire and emergency medical services are provided within the township, and would determine and provide the appropriate financial and administrative assistance necessary for these services in order to protect the health, safety and welfare of its citizenry. Also the township would require any emergency services organization receiving borough funds to provide to the borough an annual itemized listing of all expenditures of these funds before the borough may consider budgeting additional funding to the organization. (Prior Printer Number: 3274) - The proposal was approved, 168-20.

 HB 2314 Sather - (PN 4388) Amends The Second Class Township Code providing for the establishment of police, fire and emergency medical services by adding that the township would be responsible for ensuring that fire and emergency medical services are provided within the borough, and would determine and provide the appropriate financial and administrative assistance necessary for these services in order to protect the health, safety and welfare of its citizenry. Also the borough would require any emergency services organization receiving borough funds to provide to the borough an annual itemized listing of all expenditures of these funds before the borough may consider budgeting additional funding to the organization. Prior Printer Number: 3275) - The proposal was approved, 176-14.

Rep. Fleagle questioned why anyone would vote against this proposal.

   HB 2955 Kirkland - (PN 4656) Amends Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) further providing that the county of Philadelphia may regulate the purchase and possession of weapons and ammunition within its municipal limits and further providing ammunition may not be sold in the county of Philadelphia to a person who does not have a license to carry a firearm. - The proposal failed, 58-127.

Rep. Thaddeus Kirkland (D-Philadelphia) noted it doesn't make sense that anyone can purchase ammunition while a license is required to do something like drive a car.

Rep. Robert Godshall (R-Montgomery) opined this proposal will only affect law abiding citizens.

Rep. Matt Baker (R-Tioga) added his opposition, stating many people buy ammunition as gifts. He stated the proposal is bigger government and "overkill".

Rep. Kirkland noted the proposal only applies to Philadelphia and argued that it will deter criminals.

Rep. Marc Gergely (D-Allegheny) spoke in opposition to the proposal, stating it is an affront to law abiding citizens. He noted age limits are already in place for the purchase of certain ammunition and stated the Sportsmen's Coalition opposes the proposal.

Rep. D. Evans interjected that the purpose of the Committee of the Whole is to discuss ideas, not to reject proposals because the specifics are objectionable. He remarked that elected members run the House, not the groups and organizations that voice their positions. This led to a rather heated discussion between Rep. Evans, Rep. Sam Smith (R-Jefferson) and Rep. Metcalfe, in which Representatives Smith and Metcalfe argued the issues are being discussed, but the will of the members is not to impose more gun control. Rep. Metcalfe stated "liberal gun grabbing legislation will go down today", indicating that more gun control does not address the root causes of violence. Rep. Evans continued to advocate for a more open, less partisan, dialogue. Representatives Williams, Thomas Blackwell (D-Philadelphia) and James Roebuck (D-Philadelphia) also spoke in agreement with Rep. Evans.

Turning back to the proposal at hand, Rep. Waters argued it will not threaten anyone's right to bear arms, but will protect children.

Rep. Mike Gerber (D-Montgomery) agreed, stating it will protect families and neighborhoods.

Rep. Kirkland reiterated his goal to keep ammunition out of the hands of criminals. He remarked there is a bullet hole in the side of his car which he hasn't had repaired so it can serve as a reminder.

 HB 2820 Creighton - (PN 4324) The Security and Immigration Compliance Act states that by July 2007, public employers must register and participate in the Federal work authorization program to verify information of all new employees. The bill further requires the Pennsylvania State Police to negotiate the terms of a memorandum of understanding between the state and the US Department of Justice or Department of Homeland Security concerning the enforcement of Federal immigration and customs laws, detention and removals and investigations in PA. Determination of nationality and penalties are also provided for under the legislation. - The proposal was approved, 137-48.

Rep. Thomas Creighton (R-Lancaster) argued that his proposal would deter illegal immigrants from committing crimes if they think they may be deported.

Rep. Chris Ross (R-Chester) noted coordination between federal and state law enforcement is a good idea, but expressed concern with imposing additional costs on the State Police. He urged caution in considering this proposal.

Rep. Frank Pistella (D-Allegheny) asked if local levels of government would be involved. Rep. Creighton explained they are allowed under federal law, but are not specifically included in the legislation. Rep. Pistella noted his support, provided that only a limited amount of state resources are used.

Rep. Metcalfe stated his support, citing the need to stop the invasion of illegal immigrants.

Rep. Roebuck remarked borders should be sealed against drugs, as they are the problem.

Rep. Babette Josephs (D-Philadelphia) requested that the members not refer to people as illegal, stating drugs or acts can be illegal, but people are undocumented.

Rep. John Sabatina's (D-Philadelphia) proposal regarding firearms on the streets of Philadelphia was approved, 120-61.

Rep. Sabatina explained his proposal would increase the grading for carrying a concealed weapon without a permit to a third degree felony.

Rep. D. Evans stated his support for the proposal.

Rep. Sabatina's Sales or Transfer of Firearms proposal was adopted, 103-85.

Rep. Sabatina stated this proposal is aimed at limiting the continued use of straw purchasers and the illegal street transactions of firearms.

Rep. Evans spoke in support of the concept saying it should send a message to those illegally buying and selling guns.

   HB 2916 James - (PN 4578) Amends Title 42 (Judiciary) further providing for bail by stating that the amount of bail fixed for any person charged with an offense committed while the person used or displayed a firearm would not be less than $50,000 unless special circumstances are presented. - The proposal was adopted, 99-90.

Rep. James said he is disappointed that gun violence has gotten so far out of hand that the House needs to hold a special gathering to find ways to stop it. He quickly added, however, that he is relieved that this meeting is occurring today. Rep. James insisted that what is being debated is not a second amendment or sportsman issue but a violence issue. He lamented that a young person in the South and Southeast portions of Philadelphia is twice as likely to be killed by a gun as in any other place in the state. Rep. James saluted Rep. Evans' Blueprint for a Safe Philadelphia, saying it is a critical step forward.

Rep. Metcalfe expressed concern over the length of the comments being made by Rep. James, saying they were not on the point of his legislation on minimum bail amounts.

HB 2924 Kenney - (PN 4604) Amends Title 42 (Judiciary) by changing the name of the Pennsylvania Commission on Sentencing to the Pennsylvania Commission on Sentencing and Bail. The bill further provides that the commission would adopt guidelines for bail within statutory and constitutional limits which would be considered by the bail authority in determining the appropriate bail for defendants. Also, the bill provides the commission would conduct training and orientation for bail authorities prior to the effective date of the bail guidelines. - The proposal was adopted, 148-36.

Rep. George Kenney (R-Philadelphia) insisted that there is something very wrong with our criminal justice system when police come forward and say it is not working. He stressed the importance of establishing guidelines for bail in helping to standardize the criminal justice system.

Rep. Mark McNaughton (R-Dauphin) rose in support of the bill, stating that the Commission on Sentencing is uniquely qualified to handle the issue of establishing guidelines for the setting of bail amounts.

Rep. Merle Phillips' (R-Northumberland) proposal for an Emergency Demand Reduction Program was adopted, 145-31.

Rep. Phillips said passage of this proposal is necessary because PA is in the middle of a drug epidemic. He stressed to members that an increase in drug crimes is increasing the overall number of crimes and overwhelming the resources of law enforcement, hospitals and addiction treatment services.

Rep. Steven Cappelli's (R-Lycoming) proposal for the creation of a Dangerous Criminal Database was adopted, 154-26.

Rep. Cappelli said the database would consist of information about statewide offenders.

Rep. D. Evans stated his belief that this is a good concept that should be part of the overall discussion by the Committee of the Whole and he believes this will be of use to all involved in trying to stop gun violence crimes.

HB 2917 Pallone - (PN 4650) Amends Title 42 (Judiciary) by further providing that only municipalities having a population of less than 9,000 or that provide local police services through a municipal police department, participation in a regional police department or contracts with other municipal police for police services may receive revenue from the result of a State Police action for vehicle offenses. - The proposal was adopted, 118-71.

Rep. John Pallone (D-Westmoreland) said he introduced this bill to try to address the phenomena where nearly 50% of the 2,577 communities in the state are a host sponsor for a police department or are part of a regional police agreement while the rest merely receive the benefit of not only getting police protection but the financial windfall of receiving 50% of the fines collected by those police departments without having to share any of the police costs.

HB 2454 Pallone - (PN 3552) Act imposing a fee on local governments that have a population of at least 9,000; who do not have their own police departments; and who receive police service from the State Police. Such governments would have to pay a fee of $100 per resident per year. To determine this fee, the State Police would use the most recent Federal decennial census information. - The proposal was adopted, 113-79.

Rep. Pallone explained that this bill fits almost "hand in glove" with House Bill 2917 because it would require large communities with 9,000 or more people to contribute $100 per head to the State Police if they don't have their own police force. He continued, stating that this bill will only impact 23 communities in the state.

Rep. James Casorio (D-Westmoreland) offered his support of the bill, stating that of the 23 impacted communities, four of them are in Westmoreland County. He stressed that the State Police do a great job, but they are spread too thin and called the bill a matter of fairness.

Rep. Gergely spoke in support of the bill saying that police protection is critical to communities and communities that are large should help pay for their police protection like other communities.

Rep. Mike Sturla (D-Lancaster) likewise said he supports the bill, saying it is a matter of equity.

Rep. Kerry Benninghoff (R-Centre) asked Rep. Pallone how he arrived at the threshold of 9,000 residents. Rep. Pallone explained that when analyzing the cost effectiveness of operating a local police department, he came to the consensus that at a cost of nearly $1,000,000 for police protection, a community would begin to consider creating their own department. He stated that this cost equates to approximately 9,000 residents.

Rep. Benninghoff asked what would happen to communities that have 8,500 residents. Rep. Pallone stated they would not be impacted under the proposal.

Rep. Benninghoff said the main issue is about police coverage and not whether communities are receiving police services for free. The Representative stressed that every resident pays for the State Police through their taxes that go into the General Fund. He closed, stating there is no guarantee that imposing a $100 per head fee would guarantee the residents of a community of 9,000 or more additional State Police protection and called the measure a double tax on residents.

Rep. Chris Ross (R-Chester) called the 9,000 resident threshold level arbitrary and said the decision about whether to start a local police force should be left to the local governments.

Rep. Robert Godshall (R-Montgomery) stated he does believe this is a fairness issue and that a small community should not have to pay for the police services delivered in a larger community that can afford to cover their own police expenses.

Rep. Richard Grucela (D-Northampton) spoke in support of the proposal, but opined that the 9,000 resident threshold should be lowered.