Senate Appropriations Committee Reports

Reports provided by PA Legislative Services

HARRISBURG - (3/4/08, 10:30 a.m., Hearing Room 1, North Office Building)

The Senate Appropriations Committee held a budget hearing with the PA State Police (PSP).

Members in attendance included Chairman Gib Armstrong (R-Lancaster), Minority Chairman Gerald LaValle (D-Beaver) and Senators Pat Vance (R-Cumberland), Mary Jo White (R-Venango), Tina Tartaglione (D-Philadelphia), Stewart Greenleaf (R-Montgomery), Jim Rhoades (R-Schuylkill), Jake Corman (R-Centre), John Gordner (R-Columbia), Barry Stout (D-Washington), John Rafferty (R-Montgomery), Roger Madigan (R-Bradford), Pat Browne (R-Lehigh), John Pippy (R-Allegheny), Mike Stack (D-Philadelphia), John Wozniak (D-Cambria), and Vince Hughes (D-Philadelphia), who is not a member of the committee.

Col. Jeffrey Miller, Commissioner of the State Police, provided brief opening remarks, noting that the funding in the proposed budget will enable PSP to hire and train as many cadets as they can to fill the complement.

Senator Rafferty, who chairs the Law and Justice Committee, noted the testimony of the Gaming Control Board (PGCB) last week in which they stated Col. Miller and retired Lt. Col. Ralph Periandi withheld information important to the licensing process. He asked Col. Miller to explain PSP's involvement in that process. Col. Miller provided the committee a very detailed explanation of PSP's role in the licensure process and specifically on their role with the licensing of Louis DeNaples. In sum, Col. Miller explained that PSP made it very clear to PGCB and the Bureau of Investigations Enforcement (BIE) that certain information is protected by federal law and cannot be shared with non-law enforcement agencies. He further explained that PGCB initially referred DeNaples to PSP with concerns regarding his truthfulness in his deposition, but then proceeded to approve the licensure of DeNaples before PSP had time to conclude an investigation. Col. Miller emphasized that the accusations leveled against himself and Periandi are false and opined there is no question that the State Police "followed the law to the letter" and all troopers have conducted themselves professionally. He referred to an instance in which DeNaples was asked by PGCB to provide certain documents, but they were not provided. He remarked that instance alone could have been grounds for denying licensure. He additionally noted that before the licensing hearing, PGCB had access to information that DeNaples was convicted in 1978 of conspiracy to defraud the U.S., DeNaples had possibly committed perjury before BIE, and is evidence of DeNaples' conduct in other illegal activities was referred to at least three outside agencies, not including PSP. Col. Miller referred to a letter he sent to former PGCB chairman Tad Decker, which Decker interpreted as a "green light" to move forward on DeNaples' licensure. Col. Miller clarified the letter merely said PGCB had enough information to determine suitability.

Senator Rafferty noted that it is federal law that prevents the sharing of certain information with PGCB, under Title 28 USC section 534. Col. Miller agreed and again stated that PGCB was aware of this limitation and had received correspondence to that effect from PSP, FBI and the Attorney General. Senator Rafferty asked if the board was aware of the refusal. Col. Miller could not speak for the board, but he stated BIE definitely did. Senator Rafferty stated he would likely hold hearings in his committee, in conjunction with the Community, Economic and Recreational Development Committee, on this issue. Col. Miller indicated he would be pleased to participate in such hearings. Senator Rafferty opined it seems that PGCB had enough information to make a reasonable decision. Col. Miller explained he wanted all the information to be on the record, commenting that PGCB seemed to be in a rush to make a decision. He indicated he did not know the reason for the rush. Col. Miller also noted that this issue has been called a "turf war" but he emphasized that is not the case. He stated PSP doesn't care who does the background investigations and works well with BIE. He suggested legislative changes may be necessary to ensure this situation does not occur again.

Senator White asked about the status of the consolidated dispatch centers. Col. Miller explained two centers are in operation (Harrisburg and Norristown), two have been built but are not in operation (Greensburg and Wyoming) and they have bought land for the fifth (Clarion), but it has not been built yet. He explained they are not moving forward with bringing the final three into operation because staffing questions still need to be resolved and the 800 MHz radio system needs to be fully deployed. Senator White remarked these centers are long overdue. Col. Miller acknowledged there have been delays, but stated he is encouraged by the progress of the radio system, noting it should be completed by 2009.

Senator White then remarked on the criticism regarding the presence of State Police troopers in casinos 24/7 and questioned why that is needed in addition to the security guards. She opined it is a waste of money that could be going for tax relief. Col. Miller invited the Senator to come see what the State Police are doing in the casinos. He argued they need to be there, as they perform fingerprinting checks, investigate crimes and make arrests, among other duties. He remarked their role is not simply to act as a deterrent, but noted their presence minimizes problems. He noted they have started to phase back from 24/7 because of a lack of funding. If something happened while troopers were not on duty, the casino would have to wait for the closest officer to respond and that officer may not be familiar with the layout of the facility, he noted.

Senator Browne remarked on the statements related by Col. Miller and stated it seems the PGCB chair expected the State Police to provide a perspective, even though he should have known PSP could not. Col. Miller agreed, reiterating that it was BIE who referred the issue to PSP, so PGCB should have known about the ongoing investigation. Senator Browne then asked about Col. Miller's clarification of a statement in a press release. Col. Miller explained he did not sign off on the copy of the release that was sent out by the governor's office and there was a statement attributed to him indicating his support for the licensing of Mount Airy Lodge, however he clarified that his remarks were simply a statement of his belief that the PGCB acted in good faith. He noted that in hindsight, he's not sure all the members of the board were fully informed. Senator Browne remarked it was not the intent of the General Assembly to allow a license to be awarded if an investigation was ongoing.

Senator Browne then asked about funding in the budget. Col. Miller explained they tried to be responsive to the administration's request to curtail spending, but noted 82% of the budget is for salary and benefits and 14% is for operations, so that does not leave much flexibility. He noted PSP will be ok with the budget as proposed, noting they have funding to move forward on CLEAN (Commonwealth Law Enforcement Assistance Network) to share information with law enforcement agencies by 2010.

Senator Browne asked about the role of PSP on the Route 222 corridor, where drug transportation is an issue. Col. Miller explained the US Attorney for the East District requested PSP to do intelligence on the corridor and PSP is helping them to be more effective in the deployment of resources.

Senator Gordner asked for recommendations to improve the gaming law. Col. Miller suggested that the recommendations in the Grand Jury's presentment should be looked at, noting that one recommendation he supports is opening suitability hearings. He also noted a recommendation to move BIE to a criminal justice agency. Col. Miller also suggested the law be looked at regarding how information must be presented to an applicant, using an example of a known mafia member applying for a license. Although the individual would be denied, due process would entitle him to have access to certain otherwise restricted information. Senator Gordner remarked that several members felt that the law enforcement or investigative functions relating to gaming should have been under PSP or the Attorney General.

Senator Gordner then asked about certain fee increases in the proposed budget. Col. Miller explained the fee for PICS (PA Instant Check System) was never adequate and therefore required an annual appropriation. The budget proposes to increase the fees to $10, which would cover the costs. He stated he would provide a breakdown of the costs to the committee.

Minority Chairman LaValle remarked on those municipalities that rely solely on PSP for policing services and asked about the cost of that and if there are discussions on how those costs can be recovered. Col. Miller remarked the median population of those municipalities without local police coverage (not including Philadelphia and Pittsburgh) is approximately 5,100. The three largest are Hempfield, Unity and Macungie. He remarked it is worth exploring proposals to require some sort of payment from those municipalities that rely on PSP in order to add fairness to the system. Minority Chairman LaValle agreed.

Senator Madigan asked for information on the problem specific policing initiative. Col. Miller explained that began in 2003 and it utilizes the PROphecy computer program to synthesize data for analysis. The police are able to see trends and determine where they need to be, when they need to be there, and what they need to focus resources on. Senator Madigan commended PSP for the program.

Senator Tartaglione asked about progress with violent crimes. Col. Miller responded Governor Rendell asked PSP to help Philadelphia last summer, so they've devised a program with additional police on patrol using grant money and ran it for four and a half months. The program put six to eight marked state police vehicles with Philadelphia and State Police officers on the streets for three nights each week based on intelligence. He explained the program enabled the police to suppress crime instead of chase calls. Before the program began, Philadelphia had 26 more homicides for the year than the previous year. By the end of the year Philadelphia had 45 few homicides. He stated there was not a single homicide in the district in which the officers were deployed during the program. Col. Miller stated the new Philadelphia Police Commissioner has indicated support for continuing the program if funding is available.

Senator Tartaglione then discussed concerns she has heard about State Police officers parking near the Philadelphia food distribution center, which scares truckers. Col. Miller stated he is aware of the issues, but noted the intent is not to scare anyone. He explained certain grant funding is tied to commercial vehicle enforcement in Troop K, and noted more enforcement is being done in the Montgomery and Delaware Counties portion of Troop K. He stated he would provide the committee more information on their efforts in this regard.

Senator Stout asked if PSP is prepared for the tolling of I-80. Col. Miller noted he has not had specific discussions on the subject, but has had some preliminary ones. Senator Stout asked about the portion of PSP's budget from the Motor License Fund. Col. Miller responded 73% of PSP's budget is from the fund and the remainder is from the General Fund. He stated the vast majority of what PSP does is uniformed marked enforcement in patrol zones. Senator Stout indicated he is concerned that the motor license funds could be used for needed road repair.

Referring to Minority Chairman LaValle's questions, Senator Vance asked how fees are divided among municipalities. Col. Miller replied 50% of the fine goes to the General Fund and 50% to the municipality. He noted there have been proposals that the entire amount go to the General Fund in those municipalities without local police forces. He noted this would mean an additional $8.5 million in revenue. Senator Vance concurred with sentiments that it is not fair to give the money to the municipalities.

Senator Vance then asked about the turnaround time on background checks. Col. Miller said upgrades to the system last fall led to a backlog of over 20,000 but they have worked to restore it to normal levels of 6,000. He noted they have a 14 business day turnaround. Senator Vance asked about out of state background checks. Col. Miller explained PSP usually acts as a conduit to the FBI in those cases.

Senator Vance also asked about complaints that bridges on the Turnpike were being closed for repair without notice. Col. Miller was not aware of this and stated he would look into it. Lastly, Senator Vance asked about higher patrol for liquor control enforcement. Col. Miller offered to provide a breakdown, noting the ratio may reflect the pay scale.

Senator Stack asked how the increased patrol in Philadelphia is going. Col. Miller replied "exceptionally well." He stated the Philadelphia police department has been very supportive and as of March 1st, PSP is providing full coverage of all interstates in the city. He noted PSP's efforts to change behavior patterns in driving to reduce the number of accidents. Senator Stack agreed, remarking on the difference that police presence makes in how people drive.

Senator Stack asked about the DNA labs. Col. Miller replied the main lab is in Greensburg and another lab is in the Bethlehem area. He stated last year 85,485 convicted offender samples were loaded and they had 678 cold case hits.

Lastly, Senator Stack remarked on the DeNaples issue and stated he hates the "he said, she said" situation. He expressed his hope that changes will be made to ensure this doesn't happen again.

Senator Corman noted that PGCB Commissioner McCabe identified Col. Miller and Periandi as the individuals who mislead PGCB, to which the senator had replied that perhaps this is a job better done by an independent agency instead of political appointees. He clarified that his comments were not intended to insult the State Police. Senator Corman then asked if BIE is prevented from sharing information with the board. Col. Miller suggested they may not be able to share federally protected information, but they would be unlikely to have that anyway. He was not aware of any reason that BIE could not share information.

Senator Corman asked about the three agencies Col. Miller indicated BIE made referrals to in addition to PSP. Col. Miller was unable to elaborate because it is an ongoing investigation. Senator Corman asked about reports of DeNaples' involvement with vehicles flooded in Hurricane Katrina, noting that he was told the issue was referred to the Department of State. Col. Miller stated it was ultimately referred to the FBI and will be addressed, noting that PGCB did not refer it to PSP.

In conclusion, Senator Corman remarked that someone has not been honest with the committee and "someone made a decision to turn a blind eye on" available information. He commented that if the law is not followed, it does not matter what changes are made to make the law stronger. Col. Miller reiterated his confidence that PSP followed the law, noting that they have no motivation not to.

Senator Rhoades asked about the PSP complement and new duties in the past 20 years. Col. Miller responded PSP's complement was 4,157 when he became commissioner in January 2003 and now PSP is at its highest level ever and should be at full complement by 2009. Col. Miller explained they will never be able to be at 100% because of retirements. He suggested the statutory cap on the complement be looked at. He noted gaming and turnpike troopers do not count against the complement. Regarding new duties, he remarked PSP certainly has new responsibilities but he did not have a list of them. Senator Rhoades then pointed to $13.6 million in the budget reserve that has not been spent. He asked if it has been earmarked. Col. Miller stated it has been earmarked for an upgrade of CLEAN.

Senator Rhoades then asked how Dauphin County DA Ed Marsico was able to do what he did, but PGCB couldn't. Col. Miller explained as DA, Marsico has access to criminal information. He equated PGCB's actions to a person going to the ER, undergoing a series of tests and then declaring himself better before receiving the test results. He remarked PGCB acted on the license before awaiting the results of PSP's investigation into PGCB's referral.

Senator Pippy asked what PSP is doing to sync with PEMA and the National Guard. Col. Miller said PSP has "gone well beyond the recommendations of the Witt Report". He stated they've established 24/7 operation ability and are able to coordinate readiness information with PEMA and PennDOT. All personnel are plugged in and aware, he stated and if PEMA elevates response to the EOC, PSP can go there and "plug right in". He offered to provide more information to the committee.

Senator Pippy asked about PSP's relationship with Pittsburgh. Col. Miller replied they have "an excellent rapport" with the Pittsburgh police department. PSP patrols the highways in Pittsburgh and is involved in the Pittsburgh Safe Streets Task Force with the US Attorney, he noted.

Senator Pippy asked how many states have their own instant check system like PICS. Col. Miller did not know, but stated that PA has never allowed a felon to get a firearm. He said the federal government cannot make that claim.

Senator Greenleaf asked if other states have problems with organized crime. Col. Miller replied any state with casino gaming wants to be proactive in all related industries. He noted PSP works close with partners across the country and shares intelligence on gaming schemes. He remarked on the ingenuity of organized crime. Col. Miller concluded PA will be hit, so it must keep its guard up. Senator Greenleaf stated it was a constant battle in New Jersey and stated it is important to have a strong PSP presence. He asked about the duties of PSP. Col. Miller explained PSP is responsible for monitoring surveillance, arrests and fingerprinting, among other duties. He noted they have an AFIS (Automated Fingerprint Identification System) system on site. Col. Miller remarked there is a lot of money in each gaming facility and stated PSP works closely with the industry. Senator Greenleaf asked about the breakdown of offenses at gaming facilities. Col. Miller stated that of 968 offenses, 567 were theft, 57 were assaults and the remaining were robbery, forgery, weapons, sex offenses, drug related offenses or public drunkenness.

Senator Greenleaf also asked about the role of security guards in casinos. Col. Miller stated security guards perform deterrence and take care of minor incidents. He stated the police need to be there for any arrest to occur. He stated there must be two troopers working at any given time, as just one would be an unsafe situation. Currently PSP is only funded for 11 troopers, which is not enough to have two troopers in the casinos 24/7. He stated $3.4 million would be needed to have 24/7 coverage. Col. Miller opined 24/7 coverage is the "most prudent course of action" until all the gaming facilities are open and data is available to determine if different coverage is needed. He noted that funding for PSP coverage is from gross terminal revenue receipts, not taxpayer money.

Chairman Armstrong remarked he has received complaints that PSP is targeting small games of chance in central PA because of the introduction of slots. Col. Miller stated the contention of stepped up enforcement is not true, noting PSP responds to complaints. He explained the majority of small games of chance violations are related to improper recordkeeping. In those instances the troopers will likely use the opportunity to explaine proper recordkeeping and will not issue a citation. He further explained that a small games of chance license permits the licensee to take in $5,000 per week from small games of chance, but he has seen instances where licensees are making $100,000 per week. In these instances, he commented, the organization is likely an illegal operation that is not fulfilling its mission of public good.

Chairman Armstrong then asked how the Amish obtain firearms, noting that a photo ID is required to purchase a firearm. Col. Miller was not sure, but noted certain codes recognize religious beliefs. He offered to get back to the committee with more information.

Lastly, Chairman Armstrong remarked on the recent Supreme Court decision that Boy Scouts of America could no longer receive reduced rent due to its policy on homosexuality. He opined that is wrong because Boy Scouts brings thousands of children off the street. He also urged Col. Miller to tell his troopers to use common sense. He related the story of a trucker whose engine blew and he was subsequently fined $18,000 for being overweight, but the inability of the trucker to use the hydraulics due to the blown engine prevented the trucker from removing the trailer. Col. Miller offered to look into the instance.

Senator Rafferty remarked it was the intent of the General Assembly for the casinos to have a 24/7 State Police presence. He then asked if BIE reports solely to PGCB and if they are required to share information with the board. Col. Miller affirmed this, and noted they also must report any criminal information.

Senator Hughes asked Col. Miller about diversity in PSP's complement. Col. Miller explained a federal consent decree in the 1970's required diversity to be 9% and over the years that percentage was increased to 12%, until 1999 when the consent decree was repealed. The result of this decree, he explained, was PSP hired a significant number of minorities (448) during that time. Those hirees are now starting to retire, he stated, which is drawing the current percentage down to the current rate of 7.3%. Col. Miller highlighted a number of initiatives to increase the number of minorities in the complement, including testing at more locations, Latino community advertising, advertising in local community newspapers and on mass transit. He noted that the 124th class was 20% minority and 20% female and the two classes this year will be 14.6% minority in the and 11% minority respectively, and 14.2% and 21% female respectively. Senator Hughes asked about minorities in higher ranks. Col. Miller stated the number of high ranking minorities is growing, indicating that is due to promotions.

Senator Rhoades asked about the $32.8 million increase in the budget. Col. Miller stated that is based on the increase in benefits for personnel costs.

Kimberly Collins, PA Legislative Services

HARRISBURG - (3/4/08, 9:00 a.m., Hearing Room 1, North Office Building)

The Senate Appropriations Committee held a Budget Hearing with Secretary Michael DiBerardinis and the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources.

Members in attendance included Senators Pat Browne (R-Lehigh), John Rafferty (R-Montgomery), John Gordner (R-Columbia), John Pippy (R-Allegheny), Stewart Greenleaf (R-Montgomery), Roger Madigan (R-Bradford), Barry Stout (D-Washington), Pat Vance (R-Cumberland), Mary Jo White (R-Venango) and Raphael Musto (D-Luzerne).

Senator White, Chairwoman of the Senate Environmental Resources and Energy Committee, asked why there is no increase in the oil and gas lease fund. Secretary DiBerardinis stated he doesn't know when the revenue for the fund will appear, but the department has worked on a new set of policies and leasing guidelines and will consider leasing additional state forest land for natural gas drilling. He added that with regard to the Marcellus Shale, it remains to be seen how much natural gas could be available.

Senator White inquired about a $90,000 study of carbon sequestration with the Pennsylvania Environmental Council. Secretary DiBerardinis explained the department is in the process of determining the role of public lands in alternative energy policy, and is also reviewing geologic sequestration. He added it is very important to understand the potential of sequestration. He said it involves two main questions, the first being what is the state's potential to store carbon underground, and the second is how to effectively capture carbon and safely pipe it underground. Senator White asked what the department has gotten for its $90,000. Secretary DiBerardinis replied that in upcoming months, information will become available for the committee.

Prompted by Senator White, Secretary DiBerardinis detailed the reasons why usage fees were recently increased in state parks. He explained the department has looked seriously at levying admission fees, but has not found a way to implement a statewide system cheaply. He stated the department had not raised usage fees in six or seven years, and was behind other states as well as the private sector. Secretary DiBerardinis added that Pennsylvania state parks remain a bargain.

Regarding the gypsy moth threat, Senator White inquired if current funds are adequate for the department to address the problem. Secretary DiBerardinis stated DCNR has invested significant money in the program, and will conduct spraying over 200,000 acres this year. Jim Grace, Director of the Bureau of Forestry, stated that compared to last year's budget, DCNR will be able to spray 130,000 more acres this year. Senator White asked if there have been any changes made to the department's grant review and approval program. Secretary DiBerardinis remarked the department has strictly abided by the Ethics Committee's interpretation of a conflict of interest, which has resulted in several staff members having to recuse themselves.

Senator Musto, Minority Chairman of the Senate Environmental Resources and Energy Committee, asked if the department is looking at new sources of funding in light of declining revenues of the Wild Resources Conservation Fund. DiBerardinis acknowledged that while DCNR has been looking at possibilities for new funding streams, it has not be successful thus far. He qualified that the department continues to commit money to the fund because it is believed to be important.

Regarding complaints about lengthy processing times for the PA Natural Diversity Inventory Clearance Program, Secretary DiBerardinis reported that the department has transferred a position to help conduct reviews which will address the backlog.

Senator Musto inquired what action is being taken to increase the number of lodges in state parks. Secretary DiBerardinis emphasized the department's interest is to build overnight accommodations, including "nature inns" which will be 10-20 bedroom facilities with an emphasis on conservation. Senator Musto pointed out that currently, "supply certainly does not meet demand for overnight accommodations." He asked how many ATV trails have been developed on abandoned minefields. Secretary DiBerardinis reported DCNR has completed one trail thus far, which uses 5,000 acres of reclaimed strip mines. He added he is interested in conducting similar projects around the state but hasn't found more locations yet.

Senator Rafferty asked if the increased usage fees have led to an increase in employees. Secretary DiBerardinis stated there have been small increases, but added he is largely satisfied with staff levels in parks. Senator Rafferty inquired if ranger staffs are at their full complement. Secretary DiBerardinis remarked ranger complements are at "consistent levels."

With regard to flood mapping, Senator Rafferty asked for an update on the department's process, particularly in light of housing developments which may be causing additional runoff. Secretary DiBerardinis confirmed DCNR is completing flyovers of the entire state to complete the LIDAR portion of the PAMAP project. He noted PAMAP will be disseminated and made available to county and local governments, as well as non-profit organizations after its completion. Senator Rafferty clarified his concern is that the state government has to be prepared to make recommendations on data contained in the project. Secretary DiBerardinis remarked one of DCNR's primary partners in the project is the Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency (PEMA). He added it is crucial to promote the technology and its availability once the project is completed.

Referring to the Pennsylvania Wilds program, Senator Gordner inquired where its costs show up in the budget. Secretary DiBerardinis explained the line items affecting the program are included amongst park and forest infrastructure costs, and run through the Growing Greener II or Keystone programs.

Senator Gordner inquired if the main motive for eliminating lifeguards at state parks was the savings of $800,000. Secretary DiBerardinis explained that the initiative has been ongoing since 1998, and acknowledged some of the motivation has been the cost savings. He emphasized he is not concerned about liability, noting that while the program was already underway when he was appointed Secretary, he does not disagree with it.

Returning to the issue of flood mapping, Senator Madigan asked for confirmation that local governments will have access to the PAMAP system. Secretary DiBerardinis stated local governments will "absolutely" have access, and offered to provide information to members on the steps municipalities should take to get the information.

Senator Madigan asked if the department is comfortable it has enough money to conduct sprayings for gypsy moths. Grace confirmed that with the additional federal dollars DNCR has received, the department is "reasonably comfortable" with its funding. He added he believes DCNR will be able to handle salvage efforts needed after pest infestations and windstorms.

Grace provided an update on the status of the emerald ash borer in Pennsylvania. He stated the insect has moved westward across the state, but has appeared lately in relatively low numbers. He added the department has handled the situation "fairly well" but observed there is still apprehension as it continues across PA.

Senator Stout asked if DCNR has reviewed the contents of SB 1096, regarding ATVs. DiBerardinis remarked the department endorses the features of the bill, noting "we have to provide safe riding opportunities and also protect the forests." Senator Stout inquired how many companies drilled on state forest land last year. Secretary DiBerardinis reported between 100 and 150 in the previous year. Senator Stout asked if the department is no longer leasing out areas for shallow ground drilling. Grace clarified that in the majority of state forest land, deep and medium gas is more commonplace, but the department is considering allowing shallow drilling in a limited nature. He noted the department generates four to five million dollars a year in gas lease revenue.

Senator Stout asked for an update on Duke Lake in Ryerson Station State Park. Secretary DiBerardinis reported the department is in the process of creating a new design, which is the first step in the restoration of the area.

Referring to the elimination of lifeguards, Senator Vance inquired how areas such as Fuller Lake, which is a deep body of water, will be affected. Secretary DiBerardinis emphasized he is convinced there are no liability issues, and is satisfied it will be a safe practice, as close to forty other states run a similar program. Senator Vance asked if any of the money saved will be used to reopen closed restrooms and pavilions. Grace remarked that through various funding steams, millions have been invested in upgrading restrooms across the state. Senator Vance asked about money in the dirt and gravel roads program. Grace stated $5-$10 million a year is spent on road upkeep. Senator Vance pointed out forested lands in PA contributed large amounts of nitrogen and sediment to the Chesapeake Bay, and asked if it is possible to do more to help prevent nutrients entering the bay. Secretary DiBerardinis clarified it is not all state forest that is contributing to the problem, but added the department takes the issue seriously. Cindy Dunn, Deputy Secretary for Conservation and Technical Services, detailed several efforts being undertaken by the department to contain runoff, including working PA Wilds area.

Senator Stack inquired how progress is going on the Benjamin Rush State Park in Philadelphia, which has been subject to contestation by the city of Philadelphia. Secretary DiBerardinis remarked he thinks there is potential for its completion, and noted that although it is not a "giant" park, it takes up a lot of land in Philadelphia. He added he is optimistic about working with the new administration in Philadelphia, and hopes to resolve the issue amicably rather than through the legal system.

Senator Stack asked for an update on the Key 93 Land Trust Program. Secretary DiBerardinis noted that since the program is attached to the Real Estate Transfer Tax, it is not expected to increase thing year, though the department is optimistic it will still be able to carry out its spending plan. Secretary DiBerardinis also remarked on the Great Outdoors PA program, which he described as an effort to take Pennsylvanians into nature and develop interest in conservancy.

Senator Corman noted the department's budget contains a 30% decrease in operating costs, but a 15% increase in personnel costs. Secretary DiBerardinis pointed to two factors - contract costs are going up this year, and reserve grant funds were used up, which has resulted in increased personnel costs despite no increase in actual complement.

Senator Rhoades asked how prepared DCNR is to operate its beaches without lifeguards. Secretary DiBerardinis stated "we have done everything possible to be prepared." Senator Rhoades noted recent news articles surrounding the potential of merging DCNR with both the Fish and Boat and the Game Commissions. Secretary DiBerardinis rejected the idea as not even qualifying as a rumor, and emphasized DCNR does not believe a merger would be a good thing.

Referring to public-private partnerships, Senator Pippy inquired what opportunities exist, particularly in the western part of Pennsylvania. Secretary DiBerardinis explained the primary interface for partnerships is the parks, and noted that DCNR has worked with the Girl Scouts, recreation departments, churches and other entities in an effort to bring young people to the parks.

Senator Greenleaf thanked the department for its work enhancing the Lehigh Gorge, and supporting the watersheds in his district. He asked how the Rails and Trails program is faring. Secretary DiBerardinis observed PA is among the top two or three states in terms of railroad mileage, and confirmed rail systems make ideal trail paths.

Senator White remarked that according to the Governor's budget book, the real estate tax is projected to increase, and asked how that would affect Key 93 funding. Secretary DiBerardinis remarked he will work to check the numbers. Responding to a question from Senator Browne, Secretary DiBerardinis provided an example of the Clean and Green program in the town of Ridgway, which is located along the Clarion River and is involved in the program.

HARRISBURG - (3/3/08, 3:00 p.m., Hearing Room 1, North Office Building)

The Senate Appropriations Committee held a budget hearing with the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP).

Members in attendance included Chairman Gibson Armstrong (R-Lancaster), Minority Chairman Gerald LaValle (D-Beaver) and Senators Lisa Boscola (D-Northampton), Pat Browne (R-Lehigh), Jake Corman (R-Centre), John Gordner (R-Columbia), Stewart Greenleaf (R-Montgomery), Roger Madigan (R-Bradford), Raphael Musto (D-Luzerne), John Rafferty (R-Chester), Bob Regola (R-Westmoreland), James Rhoades (R-Schuylkill), Barry Stout (D-Washington), Pat Vance (R-Cumberland), Mary Jo White (R-Venango) and John Wozniak (D-Cambria).

DEP Secretary Kathleen McGinty made a brief opening statement, commenting that department employees have served Pennsylvania well. She noted that they have responded to emergencies and issued permits for gas and oil much faster than ever before. She commented on some of the reasons for certain decreases and increases in the department's budget. The recent union contract is responsible for most of the budget increases, she explained. She noted that the reductions in the line items for West Nile Virus and Black Fly spraying are a result of renegotiating the contracts. Lastly, the Secretary briefly outlined the governor's proposals for dam safety and flood mitigation.

Senator White, who also chairs the Environmental Resources and Energy Committee, noted that the Senate unanimously approved the mine safety legislation and said she hopes the Secretary and the governor persuade the House to pass the bill. Secretary McGinty agreed that the legislation is needed. Senator White asked the Secretary to provide the committee with a list of the high hazard dams in the state, to which Secretary McGinty said she would provide that information.

Senator White commented that the governor's proposed surcharge on homeowners' insurance premiums does not seem to be enough to pay the debt service on the $91 million bond issue. Secretary McGinty responded the surcharge will pay for the debt service because the bond issue provides a certain amount of money annually for the program. Senator White inquired if it is a broad-based tax on all property insurance. The Secretary confirmed that it would be an assessment on all property insurance, not just property located in floodplains.

Senator White commented that the governor has not provided enough money for sewer upgrades. Secretary McGinty replied that under a bill at the federal level, the federal government would provide the lowest amount of money ever to address this issue. She stated there is a huge need for water infrastructure money and the state should not sit back and allow this to happen. Senator White remarked that Growing Greener II was supposed to provide money to make up for what was lost in PENNVEST. Secretary McGinty replied that she will have to check out all of the details, but noted that about $300 million was provided in the economic stimulus package for PENNVEST. Senator White noted that Growing Greener II money has been used by one city for a parking garage, and she asked if that is a good use of the funds. The Secretary responded that she does not know all the details, and added that her department is only responsible for certain parts of Growing Greener.

Senator White asked if the Secretary supports the cuts for the conservation districts. Secretary McGinty said the budget proposal contains the same amount for the conservation districts that they proposed last year. Lastly, Senator White noted that the Energy Development Authority does not release the names of the losing bidders, and she asked if the Secretary will help make all the bids and the names public. The Secretary answered that DEP lawyers must have had a concern since the list was not provided to the Senator. She said she would talk to the department's lawyers and obtain more information.

Senator Musto, who is also the minority chairman of the Environmental Resources and Energy Committee, noted that the federal mine reclamation law was reauthorized in 2006. He said Pennsylvania was supposed to receive additional funding, and he asked what the department has done with that money. Secretary McGinty explained that DEP conducted a series of town hall meetings to receive input on the best use of the funding. She said they are now focused on the stakeholder meetings and compiling a report. She offered that the key questions are what percentage should go to water reclamation versus abandoned mines, and what is the best way to invest the money going forward to extend the useful life of the funds. Senator Musto asked if the state is going to get additional money. The Secretary answered yes, noting that currently Pennsylvania is receiving $27 million but in 2009-10 the state will receive about $50 million.

Senator Musto commented that in December 2007 the EPA denied a California tailpipe test that would have cut greenhouse gas emissions. He asked how this will affect the Pennsylvania Clean Vehicles program. Secretary McGinty responded that the greenhouse gas test was rejected but the rest of the Clean Vehicles program remains intact, and the state is still operating under it. She added that this will not affect Pennsylvania's requirements under the Clean Air Act.

Senator Musto asked the Secretary if she believes Pennsylvania should create a policy on the siting of wind turbines. Secretary McGinty replied that the department has met with local government interest groups on this issue and developed a sample ordinance to provide a tool to municipalities. She suggested that for the time being the ordinance should be given an opportunity to work. Senator Musto asked if the department is proposing any legislation on the issue because of increased opposition to the placement of wind turbines. Secretary McGinty acknowledged that some groups oppose the development of wind farms but noted many have accepted them. DEP is not suggesting anything at this time, she stated, adding that the regular zoning process should be given an opportunity to work.

Senator Vance asked why the budget includes a cut for the conservation districts. Secretary McGinty replied that the department proposed $3.1 million, which is the same as last year. She added that the Legislature increased the amount to $3.6 million.

Senator Vance then discussed the Chesapeake Bay Tributary Strategy, commenting that the issue should not be political, to which Secretary McGinty agreed. Senator Vance remarked that people in the watershed will see a huge increase in their sewer rates so their elected officials must stick up for them. Secretary McGinty said the department has been addressing this issue for a long time and the time has come to pay the bill. She also noted that the state has a huge water infrastructure bill of about $20 billion. Senator Vance commented that an unfunded mandate can't be put on the ratepayers. Secretary McGinty said she understands, noting that Maryland imposed a tax to provide money for the sewage treatment upgrades. She suggested that tough decisions will have to be made by the legislature to come up with funding.

Senator Boscola noted that there was a huge permit backlog and she asked how the department has made the process more efficient. Secretary McGinty explained that the department added six positions, which has moved along the permitting process. She noted that the department also works with developers to determine their needs. Developers can use a streamlined process and get an answer in 30 days after the public comment period, she stated.

Senator Boscola asked what the department has been doing to attract alternative energy companies to the state. The Secretary commented that Pennsylvania has out-competed all of the other states to attract some of the largest alternative energy companies in the world. She offered that most of these companies are bringing manufacturing jobs back to the state. She also remarked that the department has issued over 8,000 permits for other energy sources including coal, oil and natural gas.

Senator Gordner asked the Secretary's opinion of a per gallon production incentive for biofuels. Secretary McGinty replied to that there is currently a modest subsidy of five cents per gallon. She said she is not sure that one dollar per gallon is the right amount but the administration does support some sort of subsidy. She noted that the governor wants to dedicate $30 million from the Energy Independence Strategy to support biofuels.

Senator Gordner commented that the Marcellus shale field may contain an estimated 168 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, and asked what DEP is doing with regard to development of this resource. Secretary McGinty responded that the department has been in close contact with the Penn State researchers on this issue. In terms of permitting, the Secretary said there may be some important technological improvements that will allow the extraction of natural gas.

Senator Rafferty noted that the governor created a commission to study the state's water and sewer needs, and he asked if any money is available to municipalities. The Secretary replied that they are looking to assist municipalities in every part of the Commonwealth, not just the Chesapeake Bay area.

Senator Rafferty inquired if the department has any plans to address the increase in electricity rates when the caps come off. Secretary McGinty replied that it is the heart of the governor's Energy Independence Strategy. She noted that Pike County saw energy rates increase 120% overnight. She added that the governor's proposal includes advanced metering, which will allow people to know how much energy costs at a certain time. She opined that this will help create a market in the state.

Senator Rafferty noted that Temple University is working to map floodplains and asked if the department is interested in having them update certain maps. The Secretary responded that the Commonwealth has been investing in mapping floodplains, and added that the rest of the money for this program is in a line item for DCNR.

Senator Greenleaf asked what the department has done to increase the use of waste coal. Secretary McGinty replied that the department supports waste coal plants, noting that three new plants have been permitted. She added that the existing 14 plants were shortchanged in a recently finalized federal clean air interstate rule. She explained that the state rule tries to "make them whole" after getting cut by the federal government. She also discussed other technologies, including the use of old tires to make fuel.

Senator Greenleaf inquired about the state's water supply. The Secretary commented that the state has an abundant water source but even so every year there are drought warnings and advisories. The new state water plan will help address this issue, she stated, adding that the first version of the plan is due later this month.

Senator Regola commented that he would like to see increased funding for the conservation districts. He then discussed emergency disaster relief, noting that the line item is down from $800,000 two years ago to $213,000 the past two years. He asked how the state is operating with this reduction. Secretary McGinty explained that most of the funding comes from the Hazardous Sites Cleanup Fund (HSCF). She noted that the funding for HSCF has been recently restored.

Senator Browne asked for updates on issues regarding renewing existing permits and sewer plant approvals. Secretary McGinty responded that there is an opportunity for permit holders to operate under their current permit while a new one is being approved. She told the Senator that she will find out more information.

Senator Browne noted that the budget proposal includes a projected energy savings of 290 MW annually over the next seven years. The Secretary explained that is likely a consumption savings in state-owned buildings. Senator Browne remarked that he would expect that the amount of savings to go up. Secretary McGinty replied that because of the work done by DGS, energy consumption has been reduced by about 12% and it is projected to move up to 20%.

Senator Browne inquired if the department's truck idling regulation conforms to the proposed legislation. Secretary McGinty replied that there is a difference in enforcement between the regulation and the legislation, but it will be worked out. Senator Browne asked if there are any proposals to go beyond commercial trucks. The Secretary said they are not considering anything right now, however, she added that there are changes in the federal law regarding diesel engines.

Senator Browne asked if the Secretary would support an alternative energy package that includes tax credits. Secretary McGinty said yes, but cautioned that the issue is how to pay for them. If there is a funding source, tax credits can be very successful, she opined. Senator Browne asked if the Secretary is willing to reduce some of the proposed upfront capital to pay for the tax credits. That is part of the negotiations that will be determined by the size of the bond issue, she answered.

Senator Stout commented on the EQB's proposed water quality standards, noting that a company in Washington County does not have the technology to reduce discharge as proposed. Secretary McGinty replied that after this issue was brought to DEP's attention she took the issue to the EQB, which put an extension in place. She said she wants to bring everyone to the table, including the EPA, to find a solution to this issue.

Senator Stout asked about the $10 million budget request for the environmental lab. Secretary McGinty said the environmental lab is a pretty expensive enterprise. She noted that the department pays $3 million a year in rent and has high program costs. She outlined some of the work the lab does, including monitoring nuclear power plants and sending out test kits for wells during floods.

Senator Stout asked if the department is prepared to implement the mine safety law. The department has invested significant time and resources towards it, the Secretary answered. She explained that they increased their pay grades to keep some of the workers instead of allowing them to go to the private sector. She noted that the department also made several capital investments in preparation.

Senator Corman noted that the department's budget includes an 8% increase in personnel costs, and asked how much the state contract impacts that amount. Secretary McGinty replied that the increase is a result of the contract. Senator Corman voiced his concern that pay under the contract is nonnegotiable, and as a result the state cannot increase funding for conservation districts or other programs. Secretary McGinty commented that "there is no fat in this budget," which leads to some challenges. She explained that the department had to cut overtime opportunities by 50%, which means that after hours town meetings have been limited and the department's internship program was cut by 56%. Senator Corman remarked that public service is not a high-paying profession and the recent contract is affecting many programs because of the high personnel costs. The Secretary countered that employees have also seen a change in their health care benefits, and as a result DEP has lost a number of employees to retirement.

Senator Corman asked how much money people have saved with electricity deregulation. Secretary McGinty replied that there have been some savings in the Duquesne service area because they entered into long-term contracts that locked in lower rates. However, she explained that the PUC denied a number of those contracts which forces the company to pay spot market prices. "We need to get ahead of the curve," she stated, adding that Pennsylvania should avoid what happened in Maryland where they saw 72% increases overnight.

Senator Wozniak said some people in his district are concerned about the placement of wind turbines. He opined that the state needs a policy regarding windmill placement. He then voiced his concern about issues related to coal bed methane, specifically inquiring about the rights of landowners and the mineral owners. Secretary McGinty said the issue has not been decided by a court yet or put into legislation. She added that the precedent seems to be that the mineral owner has a right to access the coal bed methane. Senator Wozniak remarked that this issue has to be addressed in some way.

Senator Wozniak then said he does not want to see all of the money that may be provided by the state for water infrastructure going to the Chesapeake Bay watershed because western Pennsylvania needs money for many water issues, including abandoned mine reclamation. He concluded by asking the Secretary if she supports recycling programs statewide. Secretary McGinty answered yes, but added that the issue always comes down to money.

Minority Chairman LaValle asked the Secretary is she believes the biodiesel incentive will pass the House. Senator McGinty replied that as the details of the Energy Independence Strategy get worked out she expects it to include an incentive for biofuels.

Senator Rhoades cited a newspaper article which said the EPA is spending $2 billion to put liquefied carbon into the ground in Greene County. He quoted Secretary McGinty as stating that she wants to stop burning coal, but she also has concerns about the liquid carbon because when it's put in the ground it pops up somewhere else. Secretary McGinty clarified that the EPA has not decided to do this. She explained what is actually going on regarding this issue. She said the state is working with the federal Department of Energy to determine areas that have good geology that may be used for carbon sequestration. She acknowledged that Greene County seems like it may be an attractive option. With regard to the issue of burning coal, she said she believes coal combustion is necessary, and coal can be burned and then the carbon is collected. Senator Rhoades asked where the coal would come from. The Secretary said it would all be Pennsylvania coal. The Senator asked where the rest of the waste from the coal would go. Secretary McGinty commented that the waste coal plants meet and exceed the requirements for mercury capture. She added that the waste coal plants also exceeded the federal requirements regarding sulfur and nitrogen emissions.

Senator Rhoades stated he opposes the use of biosolids and sludge, especially in his district because of the contaminants contained in it. Secretary McGinty responded that the proper appliance of biosolids or dredge based on department standards does not pose any health hazards. She said if people have concerns they should contact the department but she reiterated that people are safe with the rules that are in place.

Senator Rhoades inquired if the state's illegal dumping program is still in place. Secretary McGinty answered yes, adding that the department has been very successful working with municipalities to address the issue on the local level.

Senator Rhoades then questioned where the state will put its radioactive waste if the current disposal site in South Carolina closes. The Secretary responded that the department is monitoring the situation. She added that the site is not closed yet and she does not see it as an imminent problem. She assured him that the department is working to be prepared if it does close.

Senator Madigan said there are a number of oil and gas leases in his district. He said he wants landowners and mineral rights owners to both have protection, and he asked the Secretary if she is satisfied with the existing laws. Secretary McGinty opined that it would be helpful to have legislation to clarify the rights of surface owners and subsurface owners. She believes it would be in the interest of both parties.

Senator Madigan asked when the Water Resources Advisory Committee report will be released and if it will include a water plan. Secretary McGinty stated that March 18 is the five-year due date. She said she believes the committee will provide a variety of information including draft water atlases and a water budgeting tool. She noted that the advisory committee believes that they deserve to continue their work.

Senator Madigan asked for a breakdown of the funding from the proposed bond issue for bridge and dam repair. The Secretary explained that flood protection projects will receive about $91 million and Commonwealth owned high hazard dams will receive about $37 million, which would all be capital projects. She said she is not sure how the bond issue will work with regard to the other aspects controlled by other departments.

Senator White asked the Secretary of she believes the legislature should enact legislation to determine the rights of mineral owners. Secretary McGinty said yes, but only for coal bed methane. She said it should put obligations on surface and subsurface owners to reach an agreement.

Senator White noted that in February 2007 Governor Rendell said he would announce a global warming initiative, and she asked when that will actually be introduced. Secretary McGinty said the administration thought that the Energy Independence Strategy would be a moved to first. She also noted that both the House and the Senate have passed legislation on the global warming issue. The expiration of the rate caps is our current top priority, she added.

Senator White noted that last year's budget included $300,000 for municipal global action plans, and she asked if the money was used. The Secretary explained that it was a legislative add by Rep. Greg Vitali. She said it was intended to be a grant program for municipalities. She noted that the department is going to be issuing an RFP for it soon.

Senator White said the University of California conducted a study on the impact of daylight savings time in the state of Indiana which recently required all of its counties to adopt it. She said the study found that the move to daylight savings time cost homeowners more money. She said this issue should be part of the energy discussion.

Senator Musto commented that solving the infiltration and infusion problem doesn't solve the combined sewer overflow problem. He opined that the federal government has put this issue on the "back burner." Secretary McGinty stated it is a serious issue. She noted that Pennsylvania has more combined sewer overflow structures than any other state, and she agreed that the issue must be addressed.

2/28/08

The Senate Appropriations Committee held a budget hearing with the Department of Agriculture. Members present included Chairman Gib Armstrong (R-Lancaster) and Senators Bob Regola (R-Westmoreland), Pat Browne (R-Lehigh), Jake Corman (R-Centre), John Rafferty (R-Montgomery), Mary Jo White (R-Venango), Michael Waugh (R-York), John Gordner (R-Columbia), Roger Madigan (R-Bradford), Pat Vance (R-Cumberland), Michael O'Pake (D-Berks), John Wozniak (D-Cambria), and James Rhoades (R-Schuylkill). Senator Michael Brubaker (R-Lancaster), Chairman of the Senate Agriculture and Rural Affairs Committee, also attended.

Chairman Armstrong inquired about enforcement of the Dog Law. Secretary Wolff said a new person was brought in to oversee the administration and enforcement of the dog law. A special prosecutor also now helps to prosecute dog law violation cases and 16 dog breeder licenses were revoked last year, he noted. Chairman Armstrong inquired about the administrator being paid a substantial salary and what that salary is. Secretary Wolff said the individual's salary is $125,000 per year. He added the department values what this person's role is and feels the salary is a fair one. Chairman Armstrong replied that since the salary is nearly equivalent to what the secretary was making, he should be paid even more since he has greater responsibilities.

Chairman Armstrong asked if this has been a good year or bad year for farmers. Secretary Wolff said last year was a good year for farmers because prices were up for crops and livestock and there were record prices paid for milk. He also said egg prices remain solid and overall this should be a good year for farmers with good prices being paid for agricultural commodities.

Senator Brubaker asked about the level of funding proposed in the budget for crop insurance. Secretary Wolff said it is $3 million. Senator Brubaker wanted to know what percentage of the premium for crop insurance is paid by the subsidy. Secretary Wolff said after state crop insurance subsidies and with federal government help, farmers end up paying 32 to 33% of the cost for the insurance. Senator Brubaker asked him to justify why the state and federal government help to pay for crop insurance when they don't pay for insurance in other industries. The secretary said it is better to pay for crop insurance at that level than to have to put a disaster package together that might be millions and millions of dollars more if crops are damaged by drought or other whether calamities.

Senator Brubaker asked if a cut in funding for the Animal Health and Diagnostic Commission is appropriate. The secretary replied that the $6.2 million being proposed is an amount they can work with and still ensure the health of livestock and other animals in the state.

Senator Brubaker asked why conservation districts are being funded at a lower level when they are being asked to do more work. The secretary said their funding is being cut slightly, mostly in the area of grants, but if additional revenue is available at the end of the year their funding could be increased.

Chairman Armstrong expressed concern over why the crop insurance subsidy is being increased from $1 million to $3 million in the governor's proposed budget. He said no farmers in his district have approached him and asked for the amount to be increased and he doesn't know why taxpayers are subsidizing crop insurance when insurance for other industries that are hard hit by rising costs, such as trucking, are also not subsidized. Secretary Wolff said it is important to fund crop insurance at this level and to stay away from a larger, weather-related disaster payment package for farmers for damaged crops, should that be necessary.

Senator O'Pake inquired about agricultural conservation easement program funding. Secretary Wolff said the total amount being proposed is $75 million, with $33 million coming from the state. He added that with Growing Greener II funds, around $80 to $85 million has been used for agricultural conservation easements. He noted that 3,500 farms have been on the wait list and that number was reduced by 700 through the use of Growing Greener II funds. He said it would take approximately $1 billion to reduce the total backlog of farms on the waiting list.

Senator O'Pake asked how many counties participate in the program. The secretary said 47 counties participate and Pennsylvania leads the United States in the amount of money invested and the number of acres of farmland preserved. The senator also asked if he is satisfied with the governor's request for this program and the secretary said yes, he is.

Senator O'Pake then asked the secretary if he is comfortable with the cut for the dairy excellence center in the governor's proposed budget. Secretary Wolff said the center does a good job in educating the public about agriculture and helping farmers learn how they can be more profitable and the center can do a good job with the proposed budget amount.

Senator O'Pake wondered if he thought it makes sense to cut the amount being requested for the state food purchase program and the farmer's market coupon program. The secretary said the department is also seeking federal dollars to supplement these programs and if there is surplus money, it can be reallocated, along with coupons that are returned from counties that don't use them. Those surplus coupons can be reallocated to other counties where there is more demand for them, he suggested.

Senator O'Pake